Personal rights versus group rights

I had a long day at work today, but I didn't die of boredom because an Army friend of mine kept texting me (don't worry, today was basically about compiling a list of... Eh, no one cares... point is, I still earned my paycheck despite being distracted by him).

W, we'll call him, wanted to chat with me about politics. A little about him - he's a Mormon, but a self-described liberal. He was very keen on Obama, but is voting for Romney this go'round.

He confuses me, but I? I perpetually mystify him. As a gay, atheist, libertarian Republican, I befuddle his 'common sense.' This is not a new experience for me, so I have fun with the conversations that follow.

He made clear to me, during the course of our conversations, that he is 'more libertarian than most people [he] knows,' but he has some objections.

W's stated beliefs:

"If you are going to take money from me, I insist in 5 things. And only 5.

-Civil upkeep (plumbing, roads, electricity etc)
-foreign relations/protections (whether it be DoS or DoD)
-public education
-public health
-I forget the word (cops, firemen, ambulances etc)

And outside of that. Defend the constitution an ensure the freedoms this country was founded on."

This, naturally, both aroused my curiosity and made me crazy.

Naturally, I argued with him over the 'necessity' of infrastructure spending, and more naturally, he went to every libertarian's favorite hyperbolic straw man, "I guess no one will build the roads!"

It's not very liberal of him to say that he only wants government for those five things.... But it's more than that.

How can you say you want to "Defend the constitution an ensure the freedoms this country was founded on," while advocating for extreme government control?

Healthcare - and he means stronger than Obamacare. Public schools, and just those, which are turning out failing students for a record amount of money (teachers' unions, cough cough). And when he says 'protections,' he's not talking about the military protecting our shores. He wants to keep his job.

Now, I get that, but even when I did my short time in the Army, if they had told me they had to fire me because of Defense cuts, I would've walked away happy. It's the best idea for the country.

I'm getting way off track, and that's wholly because I'm making this post on my phone.

I remember what this was supposed to be about!

Prop 8.

I was talking about how you vote with your dollar, and how I don't shop at businesses that supported Prop 8, and he said, "Oh, but I supported Prop 8."

I firmly believe that (a) a company SHOULD accept business from anyone and everyone, but shouldn't be FORCED TO by law, and (b) your right to vote for the right to self-determine until doing so violates someone else's rights to do the same.

This came up. He said, "Oh, people were sued because they didn't want to have gay customers. Doctors lost their licenses. Charities lost their charters."

Ah, well, those people are MORONS. I equate not serving gay people with not serving black people or Jewish people. That said, they should be allowed to be morons - but that's got NOTHING to do with Prop 8, which simply defined marriage as between a man and a woman.

"But it does. Calling it 'marriage' for straight people but not gays protects us from lawsuits like that."

I'm somewhat sympathetic. You shouldn't be sued over not wanting to host gay couples - you should be boycotted until your business forecloses and you have to live on the street, but not sued.

At the same time, you're promoting inequality in the name of personal freedom, which is totally messed up.

I want you to have the host of individual freedoms. I want you to have the freedom to self-determine... Until you interfere with someone else's right to do the same.

That's what the support of Prop 8 does. It says "My right to discriminate is more righteous than your right to marriage equality."

*sigh* I wish we weren't still talking about this. I wish it was common sense.